The single payer controversy has rumbled through the blog in a couple different incantations. Here is a video response....
I'd like some feedback on the youtube inserts (if you think they're good, praise away. If you don't like them, silence is golden....just kidding....)
Friday, March 02, 2007
Single Payer Response...3/18
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19 comments:
So you think it is horrible that a man had to wait for an MRI?
What about this 12-year old boy in Maryland who DIED because he didn't have access to a dentist?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html
As a country, we can DO BETTER than Canada and we can certainly do better than we are doing now.
The insurance companies rule what care you can have here as well. I have had an insurance company tell me that I didn't need a procedure that my Doctor told me I did. How is that any different than what happened on the video?
The healthcare systems in France, Italy and Spain are rated higher than the other European countries.
One would have to look closely at why they do better and build on that.
There isn't any reason that every American shouldn't be able to buy into a plan...I don't expect it to be free but I expect a plan that will at least pay for what I need and not have an insurance company tell me that they know better than my doctor what I need to keep me healthy.
well,
some people think that the goverment can do a better job than private enterprise,that is obviously your opinion;sadly you offer no concrete (or even remotely factual)evidence to support your assumptions. Yet even the countries that you site have a system wih the same problems mentioned in the film;however , in england ,france and sweeden there is a parrell system of private care for those who choose not to accept the Parkland style of medical care;namly , basic ,not to nice, and wait your turn ,no matter how long it takes to be seen.You ought to go to a Parkland outpatient clinic and see how long it takes to get seen ,and moreover, just see if youre satisfied with how you are treated.That is the story ; and if that were not scary enough, think about the fact that Canada and England and France and Sweeden all taken together , do not have the population that the US has!
Socialism has been tried and has failed ;dont you grt the lessons of the last 60 years in europe?
To: 12:18 PM
Listen we live in the United States a CAPITALIST society, and it it the greatest society in the world. If you want socialism move to a socialist country. Stop trying to make the U.S. one. You can buy into an insurance plan with your money if you want, but thats not what you really want. What you want is for someone else to pay FOR you. Like I said yesterday, "I went to school, I paid for it, and I got a job as a nurse to support my family. Leave my paycheck alone. I use it to support my family without government handouts". Maybe you should grow up, be a little more responsible, and do the same. I don't feel sorry for people like you. You just want to cry, feel sorry for yourself, and see what you can get from others for free. You are a disgrace to this great nation. Feel free to leave at any time.
I don't want to be at the mercy of government for health care, the same way I don't like being at the mercy of insurance for health care.
Insurance is picking and choosing everything for us. I am paying over 400 dollars a month for health insurance, (no vision or dental included), with no pre-existing conditions, and still have to pay out of pocket for many things, and we hardly ever use it.
We pay over a grand a month for house insurance, car insurance, life insurance, health insurance.
I feel like we are insuranced to death, and still have to fight the companies if you need it.
Health care has made so many leaps and bounds in technology, and everyone wants the best of the best for everything, and when your health is concerned, I understand. On the other hand, we may be killing ourselves with technology, because in the process, we have lost valuable commodities.
We may have some high tech equipment, that identifies problems much faster, on the other hand we have we have fewer people to take care of the problems and actually fix them, and make us more comfortable.
The Bible says in so many words, at the end of time, knowledge will increase, but society will be weaker. I think this is a perfect example of this.
No 1218..YOU are a disgrace to this nation and it is a pity that you are such a bitter and nasty person. I really have to wonder what made you so mean? How dare you tell me to leave this country because I think we should help our fellow citizens who cannot help themselves. My child served in the military to give me the RIGHT to speak my opinion freely and I will do so whether you like it or not.
There are other ideas out there that are viable. Why not open your mind to them? Maybe it isn't single payer, maybe it is something else. But I do know that what we have is broken and the results of that broken system are what we are seeing in this hospital now and is being replayed in others across the country.
I promise you that I don't get anything for free and I put myself and my children through college without any help from anyone--not even Uncle Sam. I work two jobs and I don't cry or feel sorry for myself. No need to. I am healthy and can do it.
However, I have COMPASSION for those who cannot and feel as a society, we are obligated to help those that are less than we are.
After all...isn't that what it says we are supposed to do in the Bible?
Or is Christianity just a punch line to you?
I won't address you again because you are so full of hate to anyone outside of your belief system that you would never agree to even look at anyone else's idea with an open mind. I detest closed minds.
I had thought that the door opened for debate on this subject...but it seems that a couple of people just wanted to be bullies.
I know that with attitudes like this prevailing, our hospital will NOT be saved because it is entirely possible that taxes might have to be raised to save your job and mine to pay for the hospital.
I can see right now you would be against that too.
Serving the greater good has obviously never been your strong suit. Flame away. I won't address your hate again.
It's a shame that you don't realize that other's ideas have just as much value as yours.
8:39
I work 2 jobs as well to pay for insurance. One of those jobs is strictly for insurance benifits.
My job that I love, is contract, so I work the job that I don't particularly enjoy because it has benifits. My husband also works contract.
I have spoken with many European doctors about their health care services, and it's not a good deal. On the other hand, ours isn't working great either.
I once spoke with a doctor from Argentina, who said that the community paid for hospital insurance locally. They paid x amount of money to the local hospital in exchange for services when needed. A draw back I could see to that is if you need services at another location due to travel-for instance. Or if you had a neuro problem and needed to be transfered to a neurologist.
The upside to that- is that the hospital is locally owned. The whole community owns it. I actually think that could be a pretty good deal, if you could work out the quirks mentioned above.
Maybe some sort of afflac deal for neuro trauma, or something like that. I would think that cost could be contained a little better that way as well, but I don't know. I flunked accounting.
I also think that if locals owned the hospital, when there were fund raisers, people would be more inclined to join in--if they know it will benifit them directly.
Anyway, if it were that easy-it probably would have been done by now.
11:47
I would think that the purpose here would be to welcome and mull over different ideas. If people are afraid to post, ideas are shot in the head.
(could be a deliberate action from the Essent Nazi's)
You know everyone is frustrated most of all the patients. But taking it out on each other is counter productive. We all come from different backgrounds and experiences.
Why not give examples of why you don't like single payer systems, such as long wait times and the way the doctors and nurses are paid, and that they get paid the same whether they see 1 pt. or if they see 20- so why bust your butt getting it done?
I too think that our country is big enough to have opposing opinnions- that is why it's such a great place to live.
That said, I don't think we need the federal government to intrude into healthcare. John Edwards' recent remarks about introducing single-payer healthcare with increased taxes sunk his chances to be President. I'm not rolling in dough myself- I work for a living. And I feel I pay enough taxes as it is without having folks who have no idea what it's like to work for a living, or look down upon the working class, telling me I must pay more.
Sorry, no sale.
OK 8:39 PM
Let me respond to some of your crap.
You said: "My child served in the military to give me the RIGHT to speak my opinion freely"
WRONG!!!!! All present and past service members (myself included 5 years) served to give ALL of us our rights. Not just you. You rely on others like your child and I to do it FOR you. Then again YOU are the one that wants socialized medicine so that the taxpayers would have to pay for YOUR care. Wake up life isn't all about YOU. Quit feeling sorry for yourself.
It is sickening!!!!!!
You also say: "There are other ideas out there that are viable." and
What ideas? All we hear from you is "poor little me I pay too much for insurance that I dont need or use. I wish there was a way that I could make the taxpayers pay for me." That would be socialized healthcare right? What viable ideas have you offered?
Then you say: "I think we should help our fellow citizens who cannot help themselves."
We do its called medicaid and it is a good example of Americas version of socialized healthcare. Also, kinda funny NOW you want to help everyone else when in your other post it was all about YOU, (see your 12:18 PM post). When someone stands up and disagrees with you they are "mean" because YOU are only thinking of others not youself. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and that makes you a hypocrite!!!
And how about: "After all...isn't that what it says we are supposed to do in the Bible?
Or is Christianity just a punch line to you?"
Since you are the one dragging religion into this it is YOU that is using Chrisianity as a punch line!!! Kinda looks like you are a hypocrite again doesnt it. Do you always become holier-than-thou when you dont agree with someone?
You even say: "I won't address you again because you are so full of hate to anyone outside of your belief system that you would never agree to even look at anyone else's idea with an open mind."
I will look at others ideas with an open mind if they arent stupid ideas that have already been proven not to work and that is all you have offered.
Your ignorance continues with: "it is entirely possible that taxes might have to be raised to save your job and mine to pay for the hospital.I can see right now you would be against that too".
Hey you finally got one right. It isn't my responsibility to pay for the hospital with my tax dollars. It is my responsibility to pay the hospital for the services my family and I use there if we choose to use them. As far as spending my tax dollars to save my job. Wouldn't that be like paying myself to work. How stupid would I have to be to do that. You don't think things out too well do you?
And finally in reference to me you stated : "Serving the greater good has obviously never been your strong suit".
Like I said earlier I spent five years of my in the Army defending this nation. That time was spent serving the greater good. What have YOU ever done for the greater good? Nothing???? Thats about what I thought. Once again you are a HYPOCRITE!!!!
11:15
There is some anger there. If I still worked at the hospital, I'd be that angry too.
11:15
There is a book out there called Anger Is A Choice. It's really good. I've had to read it a couple of times.
Prozac works wonders for PMDD too. Some of my friends are taking it. I'm personally trying to work on it from the philosophical side.
Anger is really an emotion that manifest itself from hurt. Instead of being a crybaby, you become a bully of sorts. There is this hard shell that builds up, and no one is going to break it. Its a self protective thing.
I say this because I think you are a friend of mine, based on what I've read. If not, you sound just like her. I know this person that I'm thinking of is a wonderful person, but she does have some anger issues. She's also been through hell and back to get where she is right now.
If I didn't know her as long as I have, and know what she had been through, I would say she was a b*&%), and that would be fine with her because of her shell. I know differently.
You can say I have anger issues, and maybe I do. The question is why arent you angry. I am fed up with all of these damn liberals that think the solution to the worlds problems is taking money away from my family and giving it to people that they deem worthy. My family has sufficient health, dental, etc... coverage. You know why? I pay for it. I understand that there are those less fortunate than us, and they can apply for medicaid. Is medicaid as good as my coverage? No it is not. Is that fair. YES IT IS. I have better coverage because, like I said, I pay for it.
I really should be angry. Medicaid is better than my coverage and I pay dearly for it. Ha Ha.
I understand what you are saying. Politics makes my blood boil. That is why I have read so many anger management books, over and over.
I feel as though I have been thrust into politics. I hate politics, but I have found that doing nothing for so long has put us all in such a mess that I think politics is not an option anymore. It's neccessity.
But to debate an issue is to educate. Getting angry makes the other side of the issue stand firmer to there belief and people who are undecided, will side the wrong way as well, based on how it was presented.
8:02 AM I Agree
However, you must understand you cannot educate stupid people. Anyone dumb enough to believe in socialized healthcare is just that; DUMB. It doesn't matter how you present your argument. It is much better to go on the offensive and shut them up than to let them spread their stupidity at will. If they want socialism they need to go to a socialist country. Leave our country the hell alone! Socialized healthcare exists and unfortunately it makes essesnt look like Baylor.
8:02 AM I Agree
However, you must understand you cannot educate stupid people. Anyone dumb enough to believe in socialized healthcare is just that: DUMB. It doesn't matter how you present your argument. It is much better to go on the offensive and shut them up than to let them spread their stupidity at will.
If they want socialism they need to go to a socialist country. Leave our country the hell alone! Socialized healthcare exists and unfortunately it makes essent look like Baylor.
5:30
The same people who promoted the 1707 bill----the one that I am so for, about the staffing ratio's, etc.... are now lobbying for a damn single payer health care system!!!!!!
These people have appeared to be for workplace advocacy, and healthcare saftey, and about the time they have you believing that they are fighting the good battle--they pull the switcharooo on you and try to hook you into that line of thinking.
I don't think people are stupid for being swayed into believing that is the way to go. Politicians have been doing it for years. Hitler brainwashed many intelligent people.
They do a few good things--put out a few ideas that benifit a person to try to get them to go with an idea that will benifit themselves.
I would have fell for the single payer system myself, had I not have had in depth discussions with many healthcare workers, doctors and patients from around the globe, on how all of that works.
It don't.
Anyway, the CNA/NNOC along with the AFL-CIO are endorsing single payer systems. I can't believe these people are shoveling this idea. Look it up. Leave a comment.
I strongly believe that we are the stupid ones for not knowing all of these issues and wrighting the people who approve the bills to let them know why we want them to approve or not approve some of these bills.
The politicaians that vote on this stuff--don't have a clue. They are swayed by whoever is talking and how good they can make their bullshit sound.
Frank, ran into another single-payer reference on YouTube you might want to include.
Fixing the system isn't a simple task, and right now we have in general a way of treating the uninsured, but it's unwieldy.
Something better is probably out there, but what it is hasn't come to light.
Set the link for you, might move it up to the post...just takes time....frank
For those wanting the government in this, consider:
Military can be denied life insurance benefits if it is determined that they weren't using seatbelts in an accident.
So, take it one step further: If you are a smoker, and/or indulge in McDonalds/Burger King/Fish Fry or the like, you will be denied stents(bypass surgery), or medical treatment for related illnesses....
As the government enters healthcare, do you think only the payer system will change?
The history of government programs refutes that in almost every instance.
"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither" -- Benjamin Franklin.
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